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CNN SHOWDOWN: IRAQ
Interview With Sergey Lavrov
Aired March 12, 2003 - 12:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Our focus now: Russia, a permanent United Nations Security Council member with veto power, and it has threatened to use it if another Iraq resolution is put to a vote.
Today, we go one on one with Sergey Lavrov. He is the Russian ambassador to the United Nations -- Mr. Ambassador, welcome to our program. Thanks very much for joining us during these critical, critical moments.
What would it take for Russia not to veto this British resolution, this British proposal, together with the U.S. and Spain, that's likely to come up for a vote tomorrow or Friday?
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Good afternoon, and it is actually not about what it's going to take for us to vote one way or another. It's about the substance of the matter. And the substance is the disarmament of Iraq, as we have been told repeatedly. Last Friday's report by chief inspectors, Mr. Blix and Mr. ElBaradei, in our view convincingly proved that the inspections are progressing and that they are achieving results, and that resolutions by the Security Council, which considered the mandate for inspections, are being implemented. Under the circumstances we, frankly, don't see any reason whatsoever for interrupting those inspections and for using force.
BLITZER: Well, you heard the British prime minister today say that he has got certain goals or benchmarks that he wants to include in this resolution, steps that the Iraqi government should take in order to confirm to the world that they indeed do not have weapons of mass destruction or accounted for all of them. If those kinds of benchmarks are specifically included in the resolution, would that be acceptable to Russia?
LAVROV: This issue has some history to it. Resolutions of the council which are now constituting the mandate for inspectors provide for them to submit to the Security Council what is called key remaining disarmament tasks. You can call them benchmarks, you can call them tests, but they are called by the Security Council key remaining disarmament tests. And Dr. Blix told us yesterday -- or day before yesterday, I am sorry -- that he would be prepared to submit these tasks for the approval of the council, as resolutions provide for, early next week.
And these key remaining disarmament tasks dealing with the same issues which, as far as I understood, and I haven't seen any paper yet, Prime Minister Blair had in mind. Anthrax unaccounted for, VX unaccounted for, some missile destruction, and some other things. So, if the British position is now in support of implementing the existing resolutions and allowing Mr. Blix to give the council, as he must, the list of key remaining disarmament tasks, then our position would be the same. But it is for Mr. Blix to give us the exact list of those tasks.
(CROSSTALK)
LAVROV: And it is for him to give us the time frame for the implementation.
BLITZER: Well, that sounds like that's something that would be acceptable. That's very close to the British, the Blix position if you will, that that would be something that Russia could live with in a new resolution.
The other key issue, though, is something that the Bush administration is demanding, that there be a date -- a deadline for the Iraqis to say they're willing to go forward with complying with all these specific tests or benchmarks or whatever they're going to be called. Let me throw out two dates for you and see if either would be acceptable. March 24, a week after the March 17 initial deadline that was included last week in the British proposal, or March 27, ten days after the initial deadline.
LAVROV: Well, first, Russia is not moving closer to anybody's position. Russia is insisting on the resolutions of the council to be implemented. And it is these resolutions which require Dr. Blix to submit the key remaining disarmament tasks, and we have been stressing that he must do this as soon as he can. And it is, as I just said, for Dr. Blix to indicate what time frame he believes is necessary to implement those key remaining disarmament tasks, and we will be listening to him and we would not be, really, in favor of considering some artificial dates if they're not coming from inspectors and none are accepted (ph) by them.
BLITZER: Well, you heard last Friday from Dr. Blix saying he doesn't need days. He doesn't need months -- he doesn't need years, but he needs months. He doesn't need days or weeks, but he needs months to finish the job. So what you're suggesting is that you would want some sort of deadline that would include at least months, which is the Hans Blix position?
LAVROV: No. I'm not suggesting any deadlines. I am just reminding the audience that the key remaining disarmament tasks are required to be submitted to the council by resolutions of the council. And when they are approved of the -- by the council, the council would monitor the implementation, and 120 days after the approval of those tasks, the council is required to take stock of what is the progress in the implementation. That's the schedule which is in the books, and unless the council decides otherwise, that is the schedule which Dr. Blix is implementing. Must implement, actually.
BLITZER: You probably heard our reporting earlier from our State Department correspondent, Andrea Koppel, suggesting that the U.S. and Britain and Spain are very close now to getting those nine affirmative votes that they would need for passage of a resolution, assuming there's no veto. They would regard this, the Bush administration at least, as a moral victory even if there is a Russian or French veto. If they do have the nine votes, does that put a lot of pressure on you, for example, on Russia, not to use its veto?
LAVROV: You know, we are really not in the counting business. We are convinced that the disarmament of Iraq in accordance with existing resolutions is going on, and unless the inspections are blocked, this process must continue. And I am little bit involved in information sharing about what is going on between the capitals, and I can tell you very frankly that what you read in the media about some countries being ready to do this thing or that thing is not necessarily always true.
BLITZER: So what you're suggesting is that this may be wishful thinking on the part of the U.S. government, that these three African countries, for example, may be ready to support the U.S. position now?
LAVROV: No, I haven't heard this from any U.S. officials. I have been reading about these things in the media. And from what I know, quite a number of things described in the media I would call speculations, at this moment at least.
BLITZER: Mr. Ambassador...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Go ahead.
LAVROV: ... really talked about just being in the game where we want to get X number of votes and not allow somebody else to get (UNINTELLIGIBLE) number of votes.
We are in a situation when the substance is important. And if the substance is disarmament of Iraq in accordance with Security Council demands, this process is going on quite effectively.
BLITZER: One final question before I let you go. If the vote comes up tomorrow or Friday, the U.S., let's say, and Britain get their nine -- eight or nine votes, but it's vetoed by France or Russia or China, the three permanent members of the Security Council, what I'm being told by officials here is that this war could get underway very, very quickly.
There really would be nothing standing in the way from President Bush as commander in chief giving the order to go to war. Do you appreciate that if there's no deadline, no resolution that's passed as a result of a veto, that this war could begin in the days that follow?
LAVROV: Well, that's a possibility, of course, but I cannot speak for the American government. It's not Russian government who is trying to act in this way. So I cannot really speculate when and how this would start.
BLITZER: Sergey Lavrov, the Russian ambassador to the United Nations taking a few moments to join us and our viewers. Thanks very much, Mr. Ambassador, for your insight. Good luck to you. Good luck to all the members of the United Nations Security Council.
LAVROV: Thank you.
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