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CNN SHOWDOWN: IRAQ
At U.N., Still a Numbers Game
Aired March 13, 2003 - 12:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: At the United Nations, it's still very much a numbers game. Of the 15 members of the U.N. Security Council, seven are siding with the United States. Five are against the new resolution that amounts to an ultimatum for Saddam Hussein. Two countries, Mexico and Chile, are still on the fence.
Let's go to Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. She's got word on some new flexibility. What may happen, not only today or tomorrow, but over the next several days -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Of course, publicly we heard the president calling for this vote for this week, that they said it was days, not a matter of weeks. But the senior administration officials I've spoken with this morning are saying there's a real possibility now that those discussions, those negotiations, will go through the weekend, as the British would like.
One senior administration official telling me, and I'm quoting here, that everything is in a state of flux, a state of play. They're going to allow that time table to continue. They want that second resolution. We heard moments ago from Secretary Colin Powell, who echoed that sentiment.
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COLIN POWELL, SECY. OF STATE: We are still talking to the members of the council, to see what is possible with respect to coalescing around an option that wouldn't draw a veto.
But the options remains, go for a vote and see what members say, or not go for a vote. But there are -- all the options you can imagine are before us, and we'll be examining them today, tomorrow and into the weekend.
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MALVEAUX: And, Wolf, also those benchmarks that the British mentioned, as well as a possible deadline for Saddam Hussein, senior administration officials saying that they are still studying all of those options. They haven't ruled out anything yet.
But, of course, a great deal of frustration not only from the president, but many senior aides on France's position. One senior administration official saying here there is no doubt of a veto. It seems France is more intent on restraining the U.S. than disarming Saddam Hussein -- Wolf. BLITZER: So, basically, what I hear you saying, obviously the secretary of state is telling members of Congress today, is that this is an extremely fluid situation. Diplomacy is unfolding, even as we speak. It will continue for the next few days and that anything is possible. There could be a vote. There might not be a vote. There is basically an effort to try to see if they can still forge some sort of consensus which would not necessarily draw a French veto.
MALVEAUX: Absolutely, Wolf.
Administration officials say they are still confident that they have at least seven votes from those U.N. Security Council members, perhaps eight if you include Pakistan. But on the fence, senior administration officials saying Chile, as well as Mexico. They still believe there is still wiggle room here. But clearly, This administration getting clearly frustrated. The president getting impatient as well, but they're willing to let this play out for at least a couple more days.
BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux, with the latest at the White House. Suzanne, thanks very much. Difficult times for Bush administration officials, especially since Ari Fleischer has made flat statements about a vote this week. The president of the United States last week making a flat statement that there definitely be a vote.
Now there seems to be new flexibility on all of these issues as the U.S. desperately tries to forge some sort of consensus. Let's see if diplomacy works.
This important note, today's White house briefing scheduled to begin right at the bottom of the hour in about 20 minutes or so from now. CNN, of course, will have live coverage. We're expecting Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary, to answer some serious, tough questions from the White House press corps.
Let's check in now on the reaction in Britain and Europe on all these changes and divisions unfolding, deepening divisions unfolding, even as we speak.
Our senior European political correspondent Robin Oakley is standing by for us live in London. What's happening? What's the mood over there? Do they see any way this can be resolved short of war?
ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. I think, Wolf, there is a growing acceptance here in London of the inevitability of war. It was the tone set by Tony Blair when he addressed MPs in parliament yesterday. It's a growing feeling among the ministers in his cabinet who met this morning. They cabinet managed to stay intact this morning despite the threat of one member, Claire Short, that she will walk out if Tony Blair goes to war without the sanction of the U.N. Security Council.
Key development this morning, Tony Blair called in for a meeting in his Downing Street headquarters, Ian Duncan Smith, who is the leader of the opposition Conservative Party here in Britain, important because he's probably going to need votes from Ian Duncan Smith and his conservatives to see through in parliament any decision to send British troops and get involved in military action against Saddam Hussein, because there's a big revolt in his own party.
And when Ian Duncan Smith came out from his meeting with Tony Blair, he really set the tone.
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IAN DUNCAN SMITH, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE LEADER: The prime minister today told me that although they continue to try and seek a second resolution in the U.N. and will continue to do so, that second resolution is now probably less likely than at any time before. He made the reason for this as the fact that the French have been completely and have become completely intransigent and have literally threatened to veto almost anything that is put forth to the U.N. Security Council.
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OAKLEY: Completely intransigent French, that's the line from Downing Street, and it was a line that was echoed by Jack Straw, the U.K. foreign secretary, when he followed Mr. Duncan Smith out into Downing Street a little bit later. He is calling the French action extraordinary. He says they're going to veto this resolution, this British set of benchmarks, without even seeing what is really there in the resolution.
But meanwhile, Dominique De Villepin, Mr. Straw's French counterpart, the French foreign minister, is making it clear that he is not satisfied by any of the new British propositions. He's not likely to change France's attitude as a result of those.
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DOMINIQUE DE VILLEPEN, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We cannot accept the British proposals, because they exist within a logic of war, a logic of automatic recourse to force.
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OAKLEY: Tony Blair has argued all along that he would feel justified in defying what he calls an unreasonable veto in the U.N. Security Council, and going alongside George Bush into military action against Saddam Hussein.
Clearly, the British are underlying that they believe all the French actions at the moment in their attitude toward the British resolution, or British and American resolution, that that is an unreasonable attitude, because they are not giving it due consideration. That, I think is Tony Blair preparing for war -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Robin, we know top Bush administration officials from the president on down are very upset, very angry at the French, the French President Jacques Chirac and his top adviser. So far not picking up the phone to call President Chirac. What about Tony Blair. Does he have a relationship still on the table with Jacques Chirac? OAKLEY: No, I think that has fritted away in recent months really, Wolf. They had a big spat at a European summit back in October on the issue of farm prices, when Jacques Chirac said nobody had ever spoken to him so rudely before.
And although they got together for a summit in Letuce (ph) a month or so ago and appeared to sort of get on all right on the day, there isn't really a happy working relationship between Tony Blair and Jacques Chirac. And to some extent, they are struggling to set the tone within the European Union, with Britain going for a more pro- Atlanticist (ph) line, and working alongside some of the new entrant members for the European Union. Jacques Chirac very much asserting the values of old Europe, alongside, Gerhard Schroeder, the German chancellor. There's no meeting of minds between Blair and Chirac, they do not get on, and the circumstances at the moment are entirely unfavorable.
BLITZER: What a pity. You would think that the leaders of traditional Atlantic alliance, Britain, France and the United States would merely be able to sit down, have a conference call and work this out. But obviously, that is not happening.
Robin Oakley, thanks very much for that report.
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