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CNN LIVE SATURDAY

Thousands Of Protesters Descend On New York City; U.S. Women Win Basketball Gold; Interview with James Bamford

Aired August 28, 2004 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2:00 p.m. in Manhattan, 11:00 a.m. in Tacoma, Washington. I'm Fredricka Whitfield at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta. Ahead this hour, the stage is being set for the Republican National Convention. But something else is taking the spotlight this afternoon. Thousands of protestors are gathering at several locations throughout the city. Also...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ...men are arraigned in an alleged plot to blow up a subway station just blocks from Madison Square Garden. I'm jeanne Meserve. I'll be back with that story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Those stories in a moment, but first, here are other stories now in the news.

Weeks of fighting have left sections of the city devastated and reportedly several decomposing bodies on the streets and in homes in Najaf. Meantime, new fighting in Fallujah. Two hours ago, U.S. fighter jets began carrying out air raids. In the past, similar raids have targeted safe houses used by insurgents. No comment so far from the military.

Traces of an explosive device have been found in the wreckage of two planes that crashed in Russia on Tuesday. Authorities also say two Chechen women may have carried bombs aboard. 89 people died when the planes went down within minutes of each other hundreds of miles apart.

The southeast coast of the U.S. is bracing for Tropical Storm Gaston. It is swirling off the coast of the South Carolina. Forecasters say the center of the storm could hit the coast sometime tomorrow and bring up to six inches of rain and tides three feet above normal.

We're covering New York top to bottom this weekend ahead of next week's Republican National Convention. We have reports from Jeanne Meserve with the latest on the two men charged with conspiring to blow up a subway station near the Republican Convention site. Jason Carroll is following protestors throughout the city, and Suzanne Malveaux is traveling with the President in Ohio and Joe Johns is traveling with John Kerry. We begin right now, however, with Jeanne Meserve at Madison Square Garden. MESERVE: Two men were arraigned this afternoon, Fredricka. They're identified as Shahawar Matin Siraj, he is 21 years old, a Pakistani, the other James el-Shafay, 19, a U.S. citizen. The two were taken into custody yesterday after a police investigation that lasted about a year. Now, the police are alleging that these two have scouted various locations, specifically three police stations and a prison on Staten Island, the Verrazano Bridge and the 34th Street train station at Herald Square which is just a couple of blocks from Madison Square Garden. In addition, they were known to take a look at some other subway stations. In some instances, they drew up rough maps of what they were looking at. Last week, they visited that 34th Street station once again, according to the police commissioner, to do some additional surveillance. And so they were taken into custody. They did not have any explosives in their possession. But one of the first questions asked Commissioner Kelly was, "Are these men terrorists?"

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE COMMISSIONER (VIDEO TAPE): It's important to stress that to the best of our knowledge, they had no connection to an international terrorist organization and they had no explosives in their possession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: The commissioner says as far as he knows, this plot had no connection whatsoever to the Republican National Convention. He does not anticipate that any security here will be changed. He also says that the motivation appeared to be hatred of the system and that they had made some negative remarks about commercial establishments in the area of the 34th Street station, also there had been some anti- Semitic remarks reported in taped conversations between these men and an informant that was working with the police. Now, the two men appeared in court this afternoon. We're told it was an emotional scene, that the mother of one of them was in court weeping openly and that her son, identified as el-Sharaff(ph) blew some kisses back to her. The family then appeared outside the federal court where the two were being arraigned and told reporters we think that these charges are false. Fredricka, back to you.

WHITFIELD: Well, Jeanne, these are 19 and 21-year-old men, and apparently they, as you explained, had been under a surveillance for a year. Why the arrest now? What did Ray Kelly say about that question?

MESERVE: Commissioner Kelly says the reason they were taken into custody now is that they had gone back to that subway station at Herald's Square to do some additional surveillance. And so the decision was made that this was the time to pick them up.

WHITFIELD: Alright. Jeanne Meserve at Madison Square Garden. Thanks so much.

Well, the voices of protest are being heard across New York City as Republicans gear up for the National Convention. Demonstrators gathered today at several locations including Central Park and in Brooklyn. The latest now from CNN's Jason Carroll in New York -- Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, we are right now at that Planned Parenthood rally. It's the third stage of this rally right now, we are downtown at Manhattan at City Hall. It's very vocal but still very peaceful. This was a rally that began a little earlier today in Brooklyn, as you said, at a park there, at a rally there. Thousands of people gathering at that park there in Brooklyn earlier today and after that, what they did was the entire group marched across the Brooklyn Bridge. At the end of the bridge, they were met by some--a group of people who oppose abortion. There was some thoughts that perhaps there would be a little bit of tension between the two groups, but there were plenty of police officers out there that kept both groups apart. Even so, both sides very vocal about their positions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENIFIED FEMALE: I think it's a great peaceful showing of support for women's rights and reproductive freedom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to discuss the issues how women are harmed, how women are being coerced into abortions. The early feminists were pro-life. They wanted to protect the rights of women from abortion who were being forced into abortion by boyfriends and husbands and being killed. Abortion kills.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: And as large as this protest is, it is by far not the largest one that is expected. That will happen tomorrow, Fredricka, as you know, some 200,000 people, most of them anti-war demonstrators are expected to march across Manhattan and right past Madison Square Garden, where, of course, the Republican National Convention will be held on Monday. One of the big questions out here though, Fredricka is what will happen after those marchers march. Many of them, as you know, wanted to hold a rally following that in Central Park but they were denied a permit. However, we've talked to a number of people out here today who plan on attending that march tomorrow who say they will end up in Central Park anyway --Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Alright. Jason Carroll traveling with the Planned Parenthood protestors there now in Lower Manhattan outside City Hall. Thanks so much.

Well, CNN's Bob Franken gives us a closer look at what else we can expect in the days ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Critics say the line-up is like putting lipstick on a pig. Compassionate conservatives yes, passionate ones, no. From night one, the Party will be putting what it regards as its best face forward or best glossy, depending on the point of view. It doesn't matter, says the campaign chairman.

MARC RADICOT, BUSH CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: So I think there's just a remarkable difference for the American people between the President and what he has to offer and his opposition in terms of their clarity, their consistency and their steady hand.

FRANKEN: So Senator John McCain who has morphed recently from the picture of Bush irritant to pictures of Bush embrace is at the podium Monday evening. So is Rudy Giuliani, another of the so-called moderates and a reminder of the September 11 attacks here.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: We need someone who is going to understand that we will have to remain firm against terrorists.

FRANKEN: Tuesday is another night of stars, quite literally, with California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, certainly a muscular party figure, but conservatives say he's weak on gun control and abortion. Maryland Lieutenant Governor Michael Steel will also speak that night. Who is that? That was the same question everyone asked about Illinois Democratic Senate candidate Barack Obama before he spoke to his convention. And that's not all.

First, Lady Laura Bush also goes gently into the night Tuesday. Wednesday, the warm Republican embrace includes a Democrat, a nominal one in many eyes, Georgia Senator Zell Miller. Then Vice President Cheney so the conservatives finally get their red meat man. And don't expect anything in the speech about gay rights. And then, of course, Thursday's big finish. President Bush with a variation on his theme. Bush good, John Kerry not good.

GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're going to beat him come November.

FRANKEN: The President will deliver his remarks from a specially constructed theater in the round stage.

(ON CAMERA) Like the Democratic Convention, this will be political theater, but with many of the major characters out of sight. Bob Franken, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WHITFIELD: Still much more coverage of the Republican National Convention coming up. We're live with political analyst Ron Brownstein on what bounce the Bush/Cheney ticket might get from the Convention. Also, CNN's special convention coverage kicks off tomorrow night at 8 Eastern. An all new CNN PRESENTS on the mission of George W. Bush. At 9:00 Eastern, special edition of LARRY KING LIVE and at 10:00, the RNC preview with anchors Wolf Blitzer and Judy Woodruff. We invite you to join CNN tomorrow night.

Bush's challenger, Democrat John Kerry is also on the road. We're following his moves on the West Coast. The latest straight ahead. Also, just weeks after the 9/11 commission report, the White House calls for changes in the intelligence community. We'll spell them out for you.

And the Summer Olympic game competitions are wrapping up today. We're live from Athens with details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Ahead of his party's convention, President Bush is on the road. He's on another visit to a big battleground state, Ohio. CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is traveling with the Bush campaign and she joins us now from Lima, Ohio. Hi, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Fred. Well, this is what the President calls fertilizing his grass-roots, essentially the most loyal people in the Republican Party. Those volunteers. They want them to get out and go door to door to those swing voters. This is the second stop of three in this bus tour today. It's along the I-75 corridor, which is essentially the backbone of the Republican Party in this state, this critical state of Ohio. We have been told by Bush aides, of course, that his strategy is called echo politics. Get to those loyalists and have those loyalists go door to door, people to people, to try to convince those undecided voters that that is going to be critical.

Today's message from the President is really that the economy is on the upswing, particularly important to those in this state who have seen devastating losses when it comes to jobs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: We've got to do more to make this economy stronger. Listen, I understand there's places here in Ohio that are lagging behind the national recovery. We'll continue to work to create an environment for jobs to grow so people can find work. But I want to remind you, we've been through a lot in this country. We've been through a recession and corporate scandals and an attack on our country. Yet, we're overcoming these obstacles. We're overcoming these obstacles because the entrepreneurial spirit is strong in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: The Bush campaign says 3400 jobs were created in Ohio just last month. Now, the President taking a stop to enjoy a hamburger along the way, as well; to shake some hands. Part of a strategy, of course, not only emphasizing his policies but also his personality. The latest polls showing that President Bush has the lead here in this critical state, 49 percent to Kerry's 44 percent. And Fred, another note, we'll be back here on Saturday just to let you know how important this place really is.

WHITFIELD: Right. A very important state. Alright. Thanks so much. Suzanne Malveaux, traveling with the President. Well the President's opponent, Senator John Kerry is in the Pacific Northwest today and CNN's Joe Johns is traveling with him and joins us by phone from Tacoma, Washington -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fred. This is the last stop on Kerry's western swing. He started out in Boston, came all the way out to Seattle in the week before the Republican Convention. Today, he's attending a rally in the parking lot of the Tacomadome.

On the issues he is expected to return to his economic message again today. He's likely to say a few words, we're told, about the federal retirement programs, reacting to Alan Greenspan's latest warning that something's got to be done in Washington, DC before the baby boomers start retiring. Kerry is expected to say it's a wakeup call and say the country has got to get back to fiscal sanity.

After that, it's back across the country, heads out to Nantucket for a few days off. If he follows past practice he'll do some kite surfing and biking.

Only one event scheduled next week, as far as we know, while the GOP convention going on. That is a speech before the American Legion, a speech Republicans have told us they'll be watching to see how he is received by veterans after all the recent talk about Kerry's war record. On Friday, it's probably back to work, we hear, Kerry will go on a Midwestern swing -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: And Joe, you talk about the war record. Does the Kerry campaign feel like they are making some headway or getting some picked up popularity based on this Vietnam vets versus Vietnam vets fight and an awful lot of Vietnam vets who said they were all for President Bush are now changing their minds about that particularly because they don't like the conflict that's being raised again involving Vietnam vets.

JOHNS: Yeah. Midweek this week, the Kerry campaign started saying that suddenly, they liked debating Vietnam with the President. They said they thought it was a good issue for them. The only evidence they really offered was anecdotal evidence saying that along the campaign trail, veterans were coming up to them, saying that they really didn't like the debate. They really didn't like Kerry's war record being challenged. So after that, though, they've gone pretty silent on the whole Vietnam War record issue, and Kerry for the past couple days really has been hammering away at the economic message because of some reports that came out at the end of the week that showed the economy wasn't doing quite as well as has been anticipated, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Alright. Joe Johns traveling with John Kerry from Tacoma, Washington on the phone with us there.

Some Republicans will be looking for a bounce in the polls after next week's National Convention. What could it all mean? CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein joins us from Washington. And there you are. Hey, Ron.

RON BROWNSTEIN, L.A. TIMES: Here I am.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, during the Democratic Convention or immediately following, all eyes were on the bounce effect. There wasn't a whole lot. The polls still indicated that it was a neck and neck race between Kerry and Bush. So are the Republicans putting much stock into this potential bounce?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, they face the same constraints that Senator Kerry did. Two things are true, one, the electorate is more polarized than it used to be, and two, this campaign started much earlier than they did for previous generations. The electorate has already been pretty well-massaged by the time the convention comes around. So both of those add up to there being fewer voters really in play and the possibility of achieving the kind of very big bounces we saw in the past is probably not there. What the President can do though is improve at least somewhat and especially not only in the horse race but how people perceive him. The assessment of his job performance, his ideas for the second term, I would argue it's probably more important for him to shore up his position on those kinds of measures than it is necessarily to expand the lead in the two-way race.

WHITFIELD: Perhaps you heard part of my conversation with Joe Johns who is traveling with John Kerry who said now the Kerry campaign is trying to focus a little bit more on jobs, employment, because they've taken note that that's what people want to hear about and less about this whole feuding over his credibility, his record with the Vietnam War involvement. Who is really getting the blame here? Is it Kerry for bringing up Vietnam, his record in the first place or is it now Bush who's getting a lot of blame for having supporters who are making these disparaging remarks.

JOHNS: Well, if you look at polling, they've both taken some hits on this but I would argue that Kerry probably has taken the bigger hit, no question about it. There is polling out as recently as Friday from the University of Pennsylvania showing that at least a plurality of Americans do believe that the Bush campaign is involved in these attacks, which, of course, is a central message that Kerry is pushing, but in our polling this week, we polled both nationally and in three key battlegrounds, Ohio, Wisconsin and Missouri, and other polls, there's no doubt, I think, Fred, that Senator Kerry has taken a hit both in confidence and his ability to serve as commander in chief. Overall favorability, and particularly on the controversy about what he said when he returned. By and large, Americans reject the charge consistently in polls that he lied to win his medals. There has been a lot of material that's come out that's refuted those allegations. But what he said when he came home in his Senate testimony, in his overall posture in the anti-war movement, that has raised some more questions with socially conservative swing voters in some of those Midwestern states especially.

WHITFIELD: And now you've got this former Texas lieutenant governor, Ben Barnes who is saying he is apologizing and he is ashamed for helping President Bush get into the Air National Guard. And he says specifically quote, "It was the worst thing I did was help a lot of wealthy supporters and a lot of people who had family names of importance get into the National Guard." Might the Bush administration try and deflect some of the tension here during the convention and perhaps not even bring up the issue of war? BROWNSTEIN: Yeah, I actually don't think they want to bring up the issue during the convention. If you look at the position President Bush is in right now, he is clearly in a stronger situation than he was at the beginning of the month, but largely because of increased doubts about John Kerry, not because he's really resolved the doubts about his own performance. He's still right on the bubble with an approval rating right around 50 percent. And in our polling, we found and others have found a slight majority of Americans, consistently, whether nationally or in the battleground states are saying they do not believe his policy direction has made the country more prosperous and basically made it a better country, and they want a new direction. That is the opening for John Kerry. The problem is that right now, because of the doubts about Vietnam and other issues, the constituency for Kerry is smaller than the constituency for change. I think the President's top priority in New York is to reduce that constituency for change by solidifying confidence in his own approach. They've done already pretty well at raising doubts about Kerry but as long as there are these kind of concerns about whether the country is better off under the President, there's always going to be that opening for Kerry to recover and history would suggest, challenges have been able to take advantage of that when the incumbent hasn't solidified his position.

WHITFIELD: Well, it would be no surprise that Republicans don't want to talk about Vietnam during the convention but they will be talking about Iraq and Afghanistan. How prominent a roll will that kind of talk be for President Bush.

BROWNSTEIN: I think very prominent. I think they believe overall-First of all, they believe that the pivot of the race more than anything else is the public's assessment of President Bush as a wartime President as he calls himself, whether or not Americans believe his strategy, his response to 9/11 has made us safer. I think I agree, it is a central issue here. And I think they will very aggressively as we've seen all month defend the decisions and argue it has made us safer. I also think they want to go out and begin to flesh out more of a second term agenda. The State of the Union address didn't really do that. Even some White House people acknowledge it was a flop. I don't think Americans have a really clear sense of what his priorities will be in the second term. They want to begin to do that, talking about things like social security and tax reform.

WHITFIELD: Alright. We'll see if bounce is a factor this go round. Ron Brownstein, thanks so much, of the LA Times and a contributor for CNN.

A disappointing loss for the American men in basketball but the ladies are lighting up the court in Athens. Ahead, we're live from the Summer Games.

And Tropical Storm Gaston bears down on the Atlantic Coast. We're tracking that storm.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: A golden victory for the U.S. women's basketball team in Athens. We get details on that and more from CNN's Michael Holmes in a live report coming from Athens. Hello, Michael, again.

HOLMES: Hi, Fredricka. Yes, a golden night for the real basketball dream team and that would be the women, not the men. They defeated the Aussies to take their third Olympic gold medal in a row. They've won 25 straight matches at the Olympics. They've beaten the Aussies 12 times in a row, too and they take that gold medal. It was a close game but the U.S. pulled away in the fourth quarter. The Russians beating Brazil for the bronze.

Now in the men's basketball, Lithuania and the U.S. are battling it out for the bronze as we speak. It has been neck and neck the entire game. Lithuanians taking the lead, then the U.S. At the moment, they're separated by just three points coming towards the end of the second quarter. They play in quarters here.

Let's talk football. Argentina winning 1-0 over Paraguay. Two- time World Cup winners taking their first-ever gold medal in football and their first at the Gold Medal at the Olympics in 52 years.

Now, also just going back to the basketball for a second, they're playing in the gold medal game after the U.S. is finished their bronze medal game. If they win that, that will be their first gold med in basketball, too. So the place to party at the moment would be Argentina, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Alright. And Michael, big night in track and field. The last big night.

HOLMES: Yeah, that's right, there. Later on, I tell you what, I stick my neck out and say we could see a world record in the 4x100 men's relay. The U.S. team so strong with the likes of Maurice Greene. It's going to be a really good race. That's on in about an hour. And if they don't break the world record, I'll be surprised. They've performed so well. A couple of distance races that we've got to mention because it's such an extraordinary thing. A couple of gold medal doubles if you like. Kelly Holmes of Britain has surged from behind to win the 1500 meters gold, this is a woman who won the 800 meters gold that she wasn't planning to enter. So that's a rare double. That's only happened three times before and just moments ago, too, in the mine's 5,000 meters, Morocco's Hicham, El Guerrouj won the 5000 meters. He won the 1500 earlier in these games. Both of these are rare things to occur, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And a very emotional win for him for the 1500, so I'm sure it was just as sweet for this other one, too. Thanks so much, Michael Holmes in Athens.

Well, finding an impartial jury in the high profile case, the trial for Kobe Bryant, that is, is about to get underway. We'll examine the road ahead in our legal roundtable.

Also, President Bush calls for sweeping changes in the intelligence community, but where do the proposals fall along party lines? We'll find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Now in the news New York City is the site of protests today ahead of the Republican National Convention, which opens on Monday. Planned Parenthood rallied and marched across the Brooklyn Bridge to City Hall. Other groups marching today don't have permits and that could lead to arrests.

Sudanese rebels are boycotting peace talks with the government. They are protesting alleged attacks by government-backed militias in the Darfur region. The 24 hour long boycott comes on the eve of the United Nations deadline for the government to show its taking steps to disarm the militias.

Federal health officials don't expect a shortage of flu vaccines this season but there could be a slight delay due to the problems at one manufacturer. A company that makes half the nation's flu shots says 4 million doses were contaminated. All of the 50 million doses it's working on will have to be checked for purity. Flu vaccines general start in October a month ahead of the flu season.

Keeping you informed CNN the most trusted name in news.

In his radio talk today, President Bush touted changes he's making in the intelligence community. In a moment, I'll talk to a guest about that. But first senior White House correspondent John King takes a look at the reforms.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The president's actions give the CIA director new authority while the administration and Congress debate just how much power to give a new national intelligence director. Three executive orders signed by Mr. Bush Friday give the CIA director interim say over at least some spending decisions of the National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency and other intelligence operations.

Call for a new National Intelligence Center, a clearing house for information now gathered by more than a dozen spy agencies and set guidelines for sharing sensitive intelligence among agencies, often at odds because of turf battles and other rivalries. In Miami Mr. Bush declined to discuss his new steps. The executive action is an effort by the White House to get out ahead of a heated policy and political debate.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: What he's doing is substantively wise. It's also obviously very politically motivated because it's useful for him to go into next week's convention in New York being able it say that he's done something in the spirit of the 9/11 commission.

KING: The 9/11 commission recommends having the Pentagon and the CIA yield significant authority to a new national intelligence chief. But there are disagreements within the administration and in Congress over just how powerful that new post should be. Democrat Jay Rockefeller vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee said the larger question is will the president rise to the challenge and override turf battles allowing a powerful new national intelligence director.

The Kerry/Edwards campaign focused on broader debate saying the test is whether the president supports a true national intelligence director with real control over personnel and budgets. Today's actions fall short. Administration officials concede the executive steps are essentially placeholders while the broader intelligence debate unfolds. But they insist these new steps also should improve intelligence gathering and sharing in the short term.

KING (on camera): Both parties say intelligence issues will top the agenda when Congress comes back into session. But given the depth of the disagreement over just what to do, many believe the new executive steps taken by the president will be the only major changes for some time to come. John King, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well let's talk about the intelligence reform ideas with James Bamford who has written three books on U.S. Intelligence Agencies and he joins us from our Washington bureau. Good too see you.

JAMES BAMFORD, AUTHOR, "A PRETEXT FOR WAR:" Oh thanks Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, well how do you see a potential conflict between the enhance powers of a CIA director and possibly a national intelligence director?

BAMFORD: Well, the major conflict is with the secretary of defense because it is the secretary of defense traditionally who has run basically most of the intelligence community. Most of the intelligence activities are under the Pentagon, 85 percent. So right now, it's the big tug of war between Donald Rumsfeld and will be Porter Goss, the new head of the CIA.

And right now originally President Bush had wanted to give more powers to the Pentagon and less to the CIA. Now he's moving to give more powers to the CIA.

WHITFIELD: Do you see this potential turf war as growing, getting much larger and more visceral?

BAMFORD: I think it will -- I think it will grow as the months progress as the committees begin debating on which plan to adopt. The plans range from the most modest which is President Bush's plan to give limited budget authority over the intelligence community to the new director of national intelligence to the most radical which is Senator Roberts. Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee who wants to give enormous power to the new intelligence czar.

WHITFIELD: And that would also mean hiring and firing authority as well over all 15 agencies, right? BAMFORD: Hiring, firing, all the budget, and coordination and it extends all the way to the FBI and taking out virtually all of the intelligence agencies from the Pentagon, which will trigger an enormous debate with the Pentagon and Secretary Rumsfeld.

WHITFIELD: But Congress has to approve this and as you may have heard in John King's piece, these are changes, proposed changes that may happen a long time from now. I mean this is not as immediate as say the powers the enhanced powers that President Bush is now assigning the CIA director. Do you see this as something that's months away potentially?

BAMFORD: Well again there are two pressures here originally the Bush administration wanted to take their time and not jump into any immediate decisions on this. But the Kerry campaign and John Kerry has been pushing to basically immediately go into this. He rubber-stamped the report that came out on the September 11th report and also the Roberts report.

So you have the Kerry camp that's wanting this done immediately and the Bush camp that wants a delay. And I think the delay is probably the best idea because rushing into something like this would be a big mistake. There needs to be a fair amount of debate and we have to hear from civil liberties and other interests in this new proposal.

WHITFIELD: OK and let's switch gears a little bit. Let's talk about this investigation at the Pentagon involving a potential spy, someone who was working closely possibly with the ally of Israel. What do you know about this potential conflict?

BAMFORD: Well, the Pentagon that office in the Pentagon, the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Doug Feith has been extremely close to Israel all along and it's raised a lot of eyebrows among many people who question how close this office and actually the top leadership of the Pentagon has been to Israel, and it raises many questions throughout the Arab world as well as the rest of the world as to who's directing U.S. policy.

And now we find a spy in the upper reaches, that same office in the Pentagon that basically was the architect of the Iraq war and it raises many questions.

WHITFIELD: James Bamford, thanks so much for joining from us Washington.

BAMFORD, My pleasure Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Another batch of stormy weather is bearing down on parts of the East Coast. There's concern in the Carolinas this afternoon as the storm system moves closer toward land. We will have the latest.

Also, a small toy has created a storm of controversy coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: A small toy is drawing big controversy. That story tops our look at news across America now. This toy depicts the September 11th attack on the twin towers. The toy was sold in bags of candy at small grocers across the country. A Florida wholesaler is recalling more than 14,000 bags. The Lisy Corporation says the toy was supposed to be a plastic swing set.

Control delete that's what several California cities and counties hope a lawsuit against Microsoft will accomplish. They accuse Microsoft of having a monopoly control over the pc systems market and illegally charging inflated prices. Microsoft is denying the claim.

In Kansas City streets turned to rivers. A storm dumped more than six inches of rain in the area last night causing flash floods and power outages.

South Carolina is in for its own weather woos, tropical storm Gaston is sitting off the state's coast and could come ashore sometime tomorrow. CNN's meteorologist Jacqui Jeras is live from the weather center with more on that. Hi Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi Fredricka.

We're trying to get a couple showers already moving their way on shore. Some isolated thunderstorms have been hanging around Hilton Head and down toward Savannah. There you can see the center of circulation here with Gaston, but it's moving very, very slowly so we still have a little bit of uncertainty and with its slow movement, that means additional strengthening is going to be possible.

Right now it is packing winds around 40 miles per hour, so it is barely even a tropical storm status. But certainly is going to be a rainmaker either way. It is expected to bring in anywhere between three and six inches of rainfall in its forecast track and that storm surge should be moving up a bit tomorrow with tides about one to three feet above normal.

Do want to show you what you can expect for where the warnings are in effect tropical storm warnings basically along the South Carolina coastline and then we have tropical storm watches in effect heading on up toward Surf City and then heading southward towards Fernandina Beach into Florida. So this is going to be our main concern.

Looks like somewhere around the Charleston area is going to be our best bet for this to be making landfall late tomorrow afternoon into the evening hours, we are guessing somewhere between the hours of 6:00 and 9:00. And there you can see it is going to be moving up to the west-northwest. Likely going to stay at tropical storm status and move across North Carolina and then back out over open waters early next week probably late into Monday and into Tuesday and then being downgraded to a tropical depression.

We'll keep you up to date; we will have another advisory from the National Hurricane Center at 5:00 -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, we look for that. Thanks a lot Jacqui.

Defense attorneys for Scott Peterson cross examine the prosecutions star witness but was it effective. Some analysis of the Peterson trial in our "Legal Roundtable."

Also, lost for nearly two days, two men share an incredible story of survival on the seas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Well, it's time for our "Legal Roundtable." On the docket the Kobe Bryant sexual abuse trial where jury selection is underway this weekend in Eagle, Colorado. And in the Scott Peterson double murder trial, lots of lies but no confessions as jurors hear more taped phone conversation between Peterson and his former lover Amber Frey.

Lets bring in our regular attorneys. Hank Leahland (ph) Civil Rights Attorney and Law Professor Avery Friedman and in West Palm Beach, Florida, Criminal Defense Attorney Richard Herman.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Good to see you guys.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nice to see you.

WHITFIELD: All right, well let's begin with the Kobe Bryant case. And Richard, you know there was a plea deal on the table. Kobe Bryant said no dice; we want to go to trial and here we are. Was that a good move? Of course you know if you're pleading not guilty, why would you take a plea deal anyway. But there's some question as to whether he should have taken it.

HERMAN: Well nothing is guaranteed Fredricka and you're going to have 12 people sitting there judicating (ph) him. And you know Eagle, Colorado with a population of about 80 percent white and 20 percent Hispanic you know it's a tough jury pool there. If I'm Kobe, I think I need something to help me sleep tonight, and this is despite the fact there's that tremendous DNA evidence which is going to come in.

Which I think will blow the lid off this case. But nothing's guaranteed. You know in a plea deal was guaranteed for him and it was a no jail deal. Of course it would open the door for a civil lawsuit and provide the accuser with a summary judgment on liability and just open up the cash register.

WHITFIELD: And Avery perhaps that was the real caveat. No jail time but opening the doors to a civil case, meaning a whole lot of money at stake.

FRIEDMAN: Well there is going to be a whole lot of money anyhow. The civil suit is filed Fredricka. I actually agree with Richard. I think maybe Kobe should have thought twice about it. This is going to be very tough. I mean we're dealing with a county of 3700 people, 20 percent of whom actually got summons, 10 percent of whom are now in the jury pool. This is going to be a very tough jury.

This is no slam-dunk for the defense and maybe he should have considered that plea. He walks free and freedom I think is the most important issue he's facing right now.

WHITFIELD: OK, let's talk about the DNA. Richard that you brought up, it's not necessarily a done deal that it's going to be admitted. But how could you have a rape case and not have DNA automatically be admissible?

HERMAN: Oh Fredricka you can bet your bottom dollar this DNA evidence is absolutely coming in, and the puffs that we've heard this week by the prosecution about trying to contest this DNA evidence on the eve of jury selection I think this rises to the level --

WHITFIELD: And what would be the argument?

HERMAN: Somehow the source sample was contaminated in some way. But you know, this is a kid, this is akin to prosecutorial negligence to wait till the eve of jury selection to raise an issue on the single most important piece of explosive evidence which will blow the lid off this case and get him acquitted if it comes in, it's incredible.

FRIEDMAN: There's a reason for that. And that is the D.A. is claiming the defense held that information. So the prosecution may absolutely properly raise the issue of tainted DNA and if they prevail on that, that's a big piece of the case out the window for the defense. So this is critical right now and I don't see this as prosecutorial negligence or abuse. It's the appropriate thing to do under the circumstances.

HERMAN: They are looking to grab headlines on the beginning of the case.

FRIEDMAN: Well that's what the defense is arguing.

WHITFIELD: Well if it is indeed the cases where her sexual history is going to be at issue, doesn't that seem to coincide with having to admit this DNA evidence to find if there are any inconsistencies or inconsistencies with that?

HERMAN: Oh it's coming in Fredricka. And once it comes in and they can show that she had sexual activity within hours of the alleged incident with Kobe Bryant, this case is over. It's done.

FRIEDMAN: Well, that's the spin of the defense. I mean there's a long way to go on this. Again, I think right now where the focus has to be is what kind of jury are we going to deal with. Richard's right. This is a predominantly white community and these potential jurors are going to be facing very difficult questions such as their opinion and philosophy about interracial relations, how they feel about race generally.

We've got a long way to go. Some commentators have said the jury is going to be selected by this week, by Friday. I think they're dreaming. We got a long way to go. WHITFIELD: All right, lets talk about another relationship that's kind of on the line in court. Scott Peterson case, cross- examination of his former lover, Amber Frey. Did the prosecution win anything Richard, by this cross-examination?

HERMAN: The prosecution --

WHITFIELD: Or actually it was the defense, sorry about that.

HERMAN: The defense won because the tapes are now the acquittal tapes. All promulgated and puffed up by Gloria All Wrong (ph) and this poor woman Amber Frey who was, you know, promoted for some probably some future book deals or movie deals by Gloria All Wrong (ph), I mean that evidence alone should acquit him.

Those tapes where she's crying. Her last tape she says to him, oh well I guess this is the end. And he says basically, see ya. I mean, the prosecution did not have to raise the issue of motive, but they did in their opening. They said the motive was Scott's affection and love for this Amber Frey. Well, I don't think we saw that in the tapes.

WHITFIELD: And Avery, the issue of wiretapping was brought in, whether it was even fair and legal to have this kind of recorded conversation.

FRIEDMAN: It's Fredricka, it's fair, and it's legal. The tapes are effective. The only thing I would have to agree with is now that Amber's going to be off the stand, America is going to be better because we're not going to have to look at Gloria anymore. And I think that's, in fact, they should convict her. But the reality is those tapes were very important and I think it's incrementally developing the inferences that the prosecution needs to get this conviction.

WHITFIELD: All right clearly you guys are not FOGs, friends of Gloria.

FRIEDMAN: That's for sure.

HERMAN: Oh please.

WHITFIELD: All right Avery Friedman, Richard Herman thanks so much gentleman. Always good to see you on the weekends.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you, take care.

HERMAN: Thank you Fred have a nice weekend.

WHITFIELD: You too.

Well lost and found at sea. Straight ahead, the incredible story of survival from three men clinging to life on a capsized boat.

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WHITFIELD: A sudden sequel, an overturned boat miles from land had happened to a group of Georgia fishermen. Three of them were rescued in the Gulf of Mexico but a fourth didn't make it. CNN's David Mattingly reports.

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DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): By the time their rescue was captured on video by the U.S. Coast Guard, the survivors of a weekend fishing trip disaster knew they couldn't have held on much longer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole time it was just hang on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes you could look against the skyline and see the big waves coming. I mean, they were very big.

MATTINGLY: Battered by waves, bitten and blooded by fish, sun burned, dehydrated and utterly exhausted, Mike Jackson, Keith Smith and Jake Fish staggered on deck to safety after more than two full days and nights fighting for their lives in the Gulf of Mexico.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you're out there, you don't think about these things, but your whole body system is taking a beating. And it's stress. And exhaustion.

MATTINGLY (on camera): All of them avid fishermen from Monticello, Georgia, they had been to the Gulf many times, but this time they found themselves clinging for dear life to the sides of their boat after it flipped over in rough seas off the coast of Florida. The boat's owner, Jake's son, John Fish, immediately took steps to save the lives of his friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean he was just constantly worried about us.

MATTINGLY (voice over): After being adrift for more than a full day in a desperate move to keep the boat afloat, it was John who swam below to empty the gas tanks and fill them with air. It was an act that cost him his life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was in the gas actually.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And probably got some in his lungs and swallowed some too.

MATTINGLY: Dehydrated and poisoned by the gas John struggled. In his final hours, he carved a message in the bow of his boat to his wife and daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It said to my loving wife and daughter I love you.

MATTINGLY: John Fish died just after dark that day. His body was swept away in a storm, and the ordeal for his father and friends wasn't over. They weren't rescued until 20 hours later.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They kept together with the boat. They donned their life preservers. And they just, you know, they kept each other going.

MATTINGLY: Now more than two weeks after that rescue, the cuts from the nylon ropes and the wounds inflicted by biting fish continue to heal. And the mourning goes on for a father, husband, and friend lost at sea.

David Mattingly, CNN, Monticello, Georgia.

WHITFIELD: So much more ahead on CNN Saturday. At the top of the hour it's "Next@CNN" today looking at the dangers of contaminated fish in rivers and lakes all across America. And at 4:00, " CNN Live Saturday" and "Dollar Signs," making money from real estate investments, some overseas. Experts answer some of your calls and e-mails. And at 5:00, "People in the News" looking at the presidential candidacy of Ralph Nader and his impact on the race.

But first Daniel Sieberg with a preview of Next@CNN.

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN ANCHOR, "NEXT@CNN:" Ahead on "Next@CNN" New Orleans the city that care forgot gears up to keep it that way. With the peak of hurricane season approaches. We will have some back to school tech for the college crowd. And show you the world's smallest flying robot. Those stories and a lot more coming up right after a check of the headlines from the CNN Newsroom.

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